|  Author | Topic: Misogyny Quotes from the Church Fathers (Read 2,077 times) |
alfie
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Karma: 5 |  | Misogyny Quotes from the Church Fathers
« Thread Started on May 24, 2009, 4:15pm » | ![[Quote]](http://images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif "[Quote]") |
St. Clement of Alexandria (2nd Century, Greek Father of the Church) : "Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman...the consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame"
Tertullian (2nd Century, African Father of the Church) : Women are "the devil's gateway."
St. Jerome (4th and 5th Centuries, well known scholar) : "Woman is the root of all evil.
St. John Chrysostom (4th and 5th Centuries, Bishop of Constantinople) : "It does not profit a man to marry. For what is a woman but an enemy of friendship, an inescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a domestic danger, delectable mischief, a fault in nature, painted with beautiful colors?...The whole of her body is nothing less than phlegm, blood, bile, rheum and the fluid of digested food ... If you consider what is stored up behind those lovely eyes, the angle of the nose, the mouth and the cheeks you will agree that the well-proportioned body is only a whitened sepulchre."
St. Augustine (5th Century, Doctor of the Church and Bishop of Hippo) : "I don't see what sort of help woman was created to provide man with, if one excludes procreation. If woman is not given to man for help in bearing children, for what help could she be? To till the earth together? If help were needed for that, man would have been a better help for man. The same goes for comfort in solitude. How much more pleasure is it for life and conversation when two friends live together than when a man and a woman cohabitate?"
Boethius (6th Century Christian Philosopher) : "Woman is a temple built upon a sewer."
St. Thomas Aquinas (13th Century) : "Good order would have been wanting in the human family if some were not governed by others wiser than themselves. So by such a kind of subjection woman is naturally subject to man, because in men the discretion of reason predominates."
St. Albertus Magnus (13th Century, Doctor of the Church) : "Woman is less qualified [than man] for moral behavior. For the woman contains more liquid than man, and it is a property of liquid to take things up easily and to hold unto them poorly. Liquids are easily moved, hence women are inconstant and curious. When a woman has relations with a man, she would like, as much as possible, to be lying with another man at the same time. Woman knows nothing about fidelity. Believe me, if you give her your trust, you will be disappointed. Trust an experience teacher. For this reason prudent men share their plans and actions least of all with their wives. Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one's guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. If I could say what I know about women, the world would be astonished ... Woman is strictly speaking not cleverer but slyer (more cunning) than man. Cleverness sounds like something good, slyness sounds like something evil. Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good."
Inquisitors (also wrote Malleus Maleficarum) : "They [women] are only 'imperfect animals' and 'crooked' whereas man belongs to a privileged sex from whose midst Christ emerged."
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Martin Luther - ""unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason -- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other -- my conscience is captive to the Word of God . . . God help me! Here I stand." |
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emily445455
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« Reply #1 on May 24, 2009, 9:32pm » | |
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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alfie
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« Reply #2 on May 25, 2009, 8:01am » | |
May 24, 2009, 9:32pm, emily445455 wrote:
I didn't realize that the reason Mary holds such a high place in the Catholic Church is because of sexism. Here is a quote from an article I read.
"Another far less gruesome but equally un-biblical by-product of the church’s spiteful sexism was the Vatican’s 1854 A.D. declaration on the sinlessness of the Virgin Mary. It was impossible for the Roman church to fathom God having debased himself by birthing his son through a woman, the very source of all sin. They concluded that Mary had to have been a super-woman, born without the taint of her sisters.
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Martin Luther - ""unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason -- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other -- my conscience is captive to the Word of God . . . God help me! Here I stand." |
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emily445455
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« Reply #3 on May 25, 2009, 8:37am » | |
Why are women viewed as the "source of all sin"? I find that odd. I know we're sinfully beautiful...but...hehe
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teresahrc
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| | Re: Misogyny Quotes from the Church Fathers
« Reply #4 on May 25, 2009, 2:31pm » | |
May 25, 2009, 8:01am, alfie wrote:
May 24, 2009, 9:32pm, emily445455 wrote:
I didn't realize that the reason Mary holds such a high place in the Catholic Church is because of sexism. Here is a quote from an article I read.
"Another far less gruesome but equally un-biblical by-product of the church’s spiteful sexism was the Vatican’s 1854 A.D. declaration on the sinlessness of the Virgin Mary. It was impossible for the Roman church to fathom God having debased himself by birthing his son through a woman, the very source of all sin. They concluded that Mary had to have been a super-woman, born without the taint of her sisters.
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Alfie, usually we give a reference to our quotes from other sources.
You are terribly confused. I'm slightly confused too, because I thought you were a woman.
I'm sorry to break the news, but if you think it is just the church fathers that had a "negative" view of woman, you are incorrect.
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Mary has always been held in honor in the Church. That is until the 1500's when followers of the reformers thought they should do away with any concept that wasn't explicitly in the Bible. Actually, Luther and other reformers also honored Mary and believed in her sinlessness.
It is in fact anti-Biblical to not honor Mary. In the (inspired) gospel of St. Luke, Mary prophesies that "all generations shall call me blessed".
The Catholic Church has always called her blessed, and continues to do so in accordance with God's word.
To say that Catholics honoring Mary is sexist is utterly absurd. We honor the fact that God brought our redemption through a woman. By ignoring Mary, or worse dishonoring her, Protestants also dishonor women.
Yes, woman sinned first in the Garden of Eden, when she refused to obey God, and those who are condemned are her daughters. But for those who believe, we are daughters of the woman who said "Yes" to God. Mary, who said "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word" is our Mother, not Eve.
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alfie
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« Reply #5 on May 25, 2009, 4:29pm » | |
[/quote]
Alfie, usually we give a reference to our quotes from other sources.
You are terribly confused. I'm slightly confused too, because I thought you were a woman.
I'm sorry to break the news, but if you think it is just the church fathers that had a "negative" view of woman, you are incorrect.
]11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
I hardly think you can compare this statement to a woman being a sewer or the gateway to hell. There is a big difference in these statements
Mary has always been held in honor in the Church. That is until the 1500's when followers of the reformers thought they should do away with any concept that wasn't explicitly in the Bible. Actually, Luther and other reformers also honored Mary and believed in her sinlessness.
No one ever said that Mary hasn't been honored by the Catholic Church. However, as I have shown, in general the ECFS did not hold women in high esteem. I can post more anti-woman quotes by the ECFS if you like. I believe it was St. Augustine who doubted if women even had souls.
Luther was a product of the Catholic Church. As you have pointed out in another post he was rather anti-Jewish which is also evident in the writings of the ECFS. So Luther was bound to have been negatively influenced in some of his beliefs because he was taught by the Catholic church.
It is in fact anti-Biblical to not honor Mary. In the (inspired) gospel of St. Luke, Mary prophesies that "all generations shall call me blessed".
The Catholic Church has always called her blessed, and continues to do so in accordance with God's word.
I'm not saying that Mary should not be honored but the point of my post is that Mary was placed on a higher level then the average woman because the average woman had a low status (sometimes said to be made in the image of the devil rather than God) in the church. So the ECFS had to create a godlike image of Mary in order to accept that a woman could be honored and used by God.
To say that Catholics honoring Mary is sexist is utterly absurd. We honor the fact that God brought our redemption through a woman. By ignoring Mary, or worse dishonoring her, Protestants also dishonor women.
It's the Catholic Church that has been sexist towards women. Why do all of your paintings and statues of Mary portray her as beautiful? Does the church know what she looked like? How do they know she was beautiful? If they knew she was ugly would they portray her as ugly or falsly portray her as being beautiful so that people could readily accept her as a goddess?
Yes, woman sinned first in the Garden of Eden, when she refused to obey God, and those who are condemned are her daughters. But for those who believe, we are daughters of the woman who said "Yes" to God. Mary, who said "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word" is our Mother, not Eve.[/quote]
So by writing this you are saying that women in the Catholic Church deserved to be treated badly.
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Martin Luther - ""unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason -- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other -- my conscience is captive to the Word of God . . . God help me! Here I stand." |
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emily445455
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« Reply #6 on May 25, 2009, 5:00pm » | |
Hm...my mom's name is Debbie.
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teresahrc
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| | Re: Misogyny Quotes from the Church Fathers
« Reply #7 on May 25, 2009, 10:42pm » | |
Quote:It's the Catholic Church that has been sexist towards women. Why do all of your paintings and statues of Mary portray her as beautiful? Does the church know what she looked like? How do they know she was beautiful? If they knew she was ugly would they portray her as ugly or falsly portray her as being beautiful so that people could readily accept her as a goddess?
Yes, woman sinned first in the Garden of Eden, when she refused to obey God, and those who are condemned are her daughters. But for those who believe, we are daughters of the woman who said "Yes" to God. Mary, who said "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word" is our Mother, not Eve. |
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Quote:So by writing this you are saying that women in the Catholic Church deserved to be treated badly.
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Seriously? What? The beginning of your post was well reasoned, but as an artist, I have to say you lost me on the --why do you portray Mary as beautiful-- part.
I don't think any woman deserves to be treated badly. Were some of the Church fathers sexist? Probably.
Is the Bible sexist?
To be honest, I think that some of them got their views from the Bible, such as the verse I posted.
I have never felt the victim of sexism in the Catholic Church. I feel a victim of it from the world nearly every day.
Also, why did you think it is possible that "Mary is ugly"? I'm sure she is not ugly, just as I am sure that you are not ugly even though I have never seen you. Are we not created in the image of God?
peace
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Cepha
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« Reply #8 on May 26, 2009, 9:40am » | |
Amazing, women in The Catholic Church are so much more honored than in other churches.
We have more women saints than male saints.
Sexism?
Sexism is when women are honored and others complain about it.
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alfie
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« Reply #9 on May 26, 2009, 9:44am » | |
May 25, 2009, 10:42pm, teresahrc wrote:
Quote:It's the Catholic Church that has been sexist towards women. Why do all of your paintings and statues of Mary portray her as beautiful? Does the church know what she looked like? How do they know she was beautiful? If they knew she was ugly would they portray her as ugly or falsly portray her as being beautiful so that people could readily accept her as a goddess?
Yes, woman sinned first in the Garden of Eden, when she refused to obey God, and those who are condemned are her daughters. But for those who believe, we are daughters of the woman who said "Yes" to God. Mary, who said "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word" is our Mother, not Eve. |
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Quote:So by writing this you are saying that women in the Catholic Church deserved to be treated badly.
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Seriously? What? The beginning of your post was well reasoned, but as an artist, I have to say you lost me on the --why do you portray Mary as beautiful-- part.
I don't think any woman deserves to be treated badly. Were some of the Church fathers sexist? Probably.
Is the Bible sexist?
To be honest, I think that some of them got their views from the Bible, such as the verse I posted.
I have never felt the victim of sexism in the Catholic Church. I feel a victim of it from the world nearly every day.
Also, why did you think it is possible that "Mary is ugly"? I'm sure she is not ugly, just as I am sure that you are not ugly even though I have never seen you. Are we not created in the image of God?
peace |
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Why should I trust the teachings of the ECFS when they have opinions about women that came from Satan rather than the Holy Spirit? And if they have opinions like this then how can I trust their other teachings?
As I said earlier I can post more sexist/satanic quotes by the ECFS. Make no bones about it their quotes are from the pit of hell.
I'm just saying that if Mary was portrayed in Catholic art as being ugly or even plain rather than beautiful I doubt if she would receive as much devotion from Catholics.
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Martin Luther - ""unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason -- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other -- my conscience is captive to the Word of God . . . God help me! Here I stand." |
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Cepha
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Karma: 5 | | Re: Misogyny Quotes from the Church Fathers
« Reply #10 on May 26, 2009, 1:26pm » | |
May 26, 2009, 9:44am, alfie wrote:| Why should I trust the teachings of the ECFS when they have opinions about women that came from Satan rather than the Holy Spirit? |
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Why? Because The Church (which is led by The Holy Spirit) tells us which of their teachings are divinly inspired and which are not. That way, you are protected and don't have to rely on "personal interpretation" for your guidance.
Especially since it was woman who was deceived by The Serpent and then she went on to deceive man.
Matter of fact, let's see what The Holy Bible says about this:
1 Timothy 2:
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Do you deny that Scriptural Teaching?
Quote:| And if they have opinions like this then how can I trust their other teachings? |
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Again, it's not what they teach, but what The Church approves of what they teach. That way, you are protected from any one man guiding you. The Church is guided by The Holy Spirit. So, she cannot (and has never) taught falsely.
Quote:| As I said earlier I can post more sexist/satanic quotes by the ECFS. Make no bones about it their quotes are from the pit of hell. |
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Then, according to you, Jesus' Church failed....the gates of hell "have" prevailed against His Church.
(It's a good thing you're wrong!  )
Quote:| I'm just saying that if Mary was portrayed in Catholic art as being ugly or even plain rather than beautiful I doubt if she would receive as much devotion from Catholics. |
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What makes you think that it's her looks that we honor?
The Bible says she is our mother (Rev 12:17).
We are supposed to honor our mother.
Why do you disagree with scripture?
And...have you ever heard of "icons"?
These are portraits of Mary (and other Saints) that are purposely portrayed without attractiveness.
You have so much to learn about Christian Art.
There's a great Documentary on PBS (check out their website) called "Jesus: The Face in Art"
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"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
Galatians 4:16
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teresahrc
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| | Re: Misogyny Quotes from the Church Fathers
« Reply #11 on May 26, 2009, 1:34pm » | |
Quote:| I'm just saying that if Mary was portrayed in Catholic art as being ugly or even plain rather than beautiful I doubt if she would receive as much devotion from Catholics. |
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No one really knows what Mary looks like. Most of the painting of her are all completely different from each other. To be honest, I have seen quite a few that were "unattractive" by the standards of this world.
What do you think? That artists should say "hey, let's make a bunch of ugly paintings of the Saints!"
No, they paint for the glory of God.
But, you must know that the most beautiful face of all is one that was "disfigured beyond the appearance of any man" (Isaiah 53) . Yet even so, we honor, adore and reverence the Face of Jesus more than any other.
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